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I recently had a series of discussions with other participants on a christian message board which degenerated into name calling and abuse.This is the text of that discussion and my username was"joybringer"
Topic: HAPPY NEWS FOR CHRISTIANS!!!
Joybringer
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I am so happy to bring you this good news!!!The good news is that there is NO suffering in hell,isn't that wonderful?!?!?!You see,if you go to hell you will be a spirit and spirits have no nervous systems,so if you have no nervous system you CANNOT suffer,isn't that just the best news you ever heard????MORE GOOD NEWS TO COME!!!!
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Isn't it strange that there are so many different gods,but you can never find one when you want one!!!
joybringer:
I am wondering what religion you follow and where you got the idea that only spirits go to hell? That is not what the bible says. If our earthly bodies are resurrected to go to heaven, then it follows that those that go to hell also go with their resurrected bodies. The Bible I am sure would make this plain, but I don't have time right now to look it up but what I DO know is, that it's said in the Bible that hell will be a place of endless torment and suffering, because of a separation from GOD. Torment and suffering will be physical, emotional, mental and spiritual, whether we have a 'nervous system' or not, that is what the damned will endure..
Peace,
Gale ----------------------------------------------------Joybringer:
The best news is that Christians will not be in hell so most certainly they will not suffer there. We have trusted in the blood of Jesus and received cleansing from our sins and freedom from all the penalty of sin.
The sad news is that for those who reject Christ hell is a place of eternal torment and is their certain fate.
Back to the good news. Everyone who is alive has an opportunity to personally receive Jesus and avoid not only the eternal penalty of hell but a lot of heartache in this world as well and to experience His love and joy. Why waste time trying to make hell sound less unpleasant, just make reservations for eternal life instead. I can only think of one spiritual force that would try to make hell sound like an Ok place and that's the devil. And he is a liar and the father of lies, I know because Jesus said so.
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GALE:There is still good news,because your body will soon burn away and all that will be left will be the non suffering spirit.To the other responder:I am not the devil,i am just someone who thinks for himself.On the judgement day when jesus comes face to face with the suffering children[whose screams he ignored]he will hide his face in shame.Bye4now.
quote:
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Originally posted by Joybringer:
GALE:There is still good news,because your body will soon burn away and all that will be left will be the non suffering spirit.To the other responder:I am not the devil,i am just someone who thinks for himself.On the judgement day when jesus comes face to face with the suffering children[whose screams he ignored]he will hide his face in shame.Bye4now.
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I don't know any Christian who believes what you do. That those who have not found salvation when they die, their bodies will burn away? You are mistaken. And as for Jesus hiding his face in shame? God hide his face in SHAME? No, I don't believe this. If anything God might be saddened for those who after given ample opportunity to believe in him still in the end rejected him. But the word shame according to the dictionary means:
A painful emotion caused by a strong sense of guilt, embarrassment..
As for the 'other person' you referred to, she is a Pastor whose credentials are top notch..
I think you are misinformed Joybringer, and need to read the Bible for a better understanding..
Peace,
Gale
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Joybringer
Please reread my post if you wish accuracy. I did not say You were the devil. I did say that the spiritual force that influenced your views is the devil. One can heara dog bark and even immitate it without becoming a dog. One can listen to the devil's lies and even repeat then without becoming the devil. Most of not all of us had false beliefs and believed and said erroneous things before we were saved.
The good news is that despite all the things we said and did Jesus loves us and died for us that we can live in Him forever. He took the penalty of all our sin and if we will accept His gift to us we can have salvation in His name and never need to know what hell is like by personal experience. That means YOU too. His grace is availiable to you today. Please talk to Him and ask Him to show You his love for you and please receive His gift of salvation.
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TO GOD BE THE GLORY
Joybringer
Member
Posts: 11
Registered: Dec 2000
posted 01-05-2001 11:24 AM
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ANN/GALE:First things first,i am not a christian,i would have thought that was obvious to two intelligent people like you.Now,down to business.Do you know what i would do if i had the power you say your god has?I would feed the hungry,get rid of the weapons of war,punish the wicked to stop them doing their evil deeds,etc,etc.And do you know something else?There would be no strings attached,i wouldn't ask anyone to worship me as a condition.Your god is like a cross between king kong and a six year old spoilt brat who is not getting his way and i am so delighted that he doesn't exist.Bye4now.
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Isn't it strange that there are so many different gods,but you can never find one when you want one!!!
Gale947
Member
Posts: 131
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 01-05-2001 02:57 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joybringer:
ANN/GALE:First things first,i am not a christian,i would have thought that was obvious to two intelligent people like you.Now,down to business.Do you know what i would do if i had the power you say your god has?I would feed the hungry,get rid of the weapons of war,punish the wicked to stop them doing their evil deeds,etc,etc.And do you know something else?There would be no strings attached,i wouldn't ask anyone to worship me as a condition.Your god is like a cross between king kong and a six year old spoilt brat who is not getting his way and i am so delighted that he doesn't exist.Bye4now.
I realized you were not a Christian with your first post, that's why I asked what faith you followed. It had a rather sarcastic edge as well as being full of lies NOT truth.
As for him feeding the hungry, getting rid of weapons of war. Their are many Christians who are serving him, by doing just that. There are worldwide Outreach programs in many third world countries, and their are programs even in our own country to help the homeless and starving. As for the weapons thing well, our government is in charge of that, but even so, just because you don't understand why God doesn't just rid the world of war machines, well he has a plan. None of us know what his plan is, and just because we don't know does not mean there is evidence that he does not exist.
I think God asking us to worship him, is a very small thing compared to what he gave to us which was, firstly, his Son to DIE for all of our sins, and in addition by doing so assures that we will NEVER die but have eternal life if we just believe.
Your last assertion is childish and immature and I will not even answer that.
Instead I am going to pray for you Joybringer that God will bring you closer to him some day, and that one day you really WILL bring Joy to others..
In Christ,
Gale
Joybringer
Member
Posts: 11
Registered: Dec 2000
posted 01-05-2001 07:15 PM
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GALE:Why are so eager for me to become a christian?Christianity doesn't necessarily make you more moral,or any happier,or more prosperous,does it?Sometimes it does the opposite.Some of the best people i ever met have been christians,but then again,some of the lowest,trashiest bigots and hatemongers on the face of this planet are also christians.I'm sorry to say this gale,but some of you people make such fools of yourselves by being so high and mighty,especially when the rest of us can see that you're just imperfect human beings like we are.By the way,when i say that christianity doesn't make you more prosperous,some christians have done very well out of it by persuading the ignorant to hand over their money so as to buy themselves a place in heaven.If jesus does return,it will only be to collect his share of the profits.
IP: Logged
Gale947
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joybringer:
GALE:Why are so eager for me to become a christian?Christianity doesn't necessarily make you more moral,or any happier,or more prosperous,does it?
Yes Christianity DOES make you moral according to God's laws, and definitely makes one more happy. For how could one NOT be happy knowing that they have been given a gift of eternal life? As for prosperous, well I am not sure what your definition is. If you mean regarding wealth and material things, well I am sure that some Christians believe that, and possibly God has blessed them that way. However that is not at all important to me. It used to be. I used to
play the lottery as frequently as the next person. But if you mean prosperous in regards to spiritual rewards then I would answer yes. God definitely gives you much prosperity.
Some of the best people i ever met have been christians,but then again,some of the lowest,trashiest bigots and hatemongers on the face of this planet are also christians.
Joybringer, there are people who claim they are Christians simply because they attend Church. Being a genuine Christian does not mean you follow a particular denomination or go to a certain church, it means you have a relationship with Jesus Christ. Then there are Christians who 'think'
they are Christians but really are involved in a Cult. Just because someone says they ARE a Christian doesn't make it so. So you just said it yourself, you've met some of the best people who are Christians and others who from what you have described could not possibly be.
I'm sorry to say this gale,but some of you people make such fools of yourselves by being so high and mighty,especially when the rest of us can see that you're just imperfect human beings like we are.
High and mighty? You are inferring that Christians think they are perfect? Well we are NOT perfect, just saved, Joybringer. Christians make mistakes too.
By the way,when i say that christianity doesn't make you more prosperous,some christians have done very well out of it by persuading the ignorant to hand over their money so as to buy themselves a place in heaven.If jesus does return,it will only be to collect his share of the profits.
When Jesus returns, and he WILL return, and on that final day of judgment you and those that have rejected him will find yourself standing in front of his throne, and you will be judged. Why let that happen? Have you ever studied, and I mean really studied Christianity, or read the Bible? Are you of any particular faith? If so which? I am just curious.
Jesus Christ died so that all of mankind could have eternal life, if they would believe. Why don't you give it a try Joybringer? What have you got to lose?
In Christ,
Gale
Joybringer
----------------------------------------------------GALE:why is it that when christians do wrong,you say"oh well they're not really christians????" Gale,if it wasn't for the SCUMBAG christians,of whom there have been many throughout history,you would never even have heard of jesus and you would probably now be worshipping whatever other god the white man invented.Do you seriously believe that if jesus had been born black in africa,you would now be praying to him????
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Isn't it strange that there are so many different gods,but you can never find one when you want one!!!
GALE947
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Do you seriously believe that if jesus had been born black in africa,you would now be praying to him????
Yes if Jesus had been black in Africa I would now be praying to him. Race isn't the issue, what he stands for and what he offers to anyone who will accept it, IS.
I am sorry you feel like that about certain
Christians, but we are not all LIKE that Joybringer. There are wonderful Christians who are continually led by the Holy Spirit and have touched many peoples lives. There is a Christian outreach group right now who literally go to countries such as Sudan to feed the starving children. I have seen it myself. Whoever those bad Christians are that you are describing well, I personally have never come across any like that, and I guarantee you that these people by claiming
to be Christian, if they are NOT 'followers
of Jesus Christ', or have not been saved, then they are NOT Christians.
In Christ,
Gale
[/QUOTE]
Joybringer
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Gale,i want you to know that if you ever have an accident and you're lying injured in the street,i will do all in my power to help you,i will call an ambulance and do whatever else is necessary.The bible says we must try to emulate god,but that would mean ignoring your predicament and walking on by,like god does and i just couldn't do that.Gale do you really think god has the right to judge the aid workers that sacrifice so much[sometimes even their lives]to help others,while he,god,sits up in heaven doing nothing?????
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Isn't it strange that there are so many different gods,but you can never find one when you want one!!!
Gale947
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joybringer:
Gale,i want you to know that if you ever have an accident and you're lying injured in the street,i will do all in my power to help you,i will call an ambulance and do whatever else is necessary.
Well thank you. How very sweet of you. And I would certainly help you too.
The bible says we must try to emulate god
Yes I suppose in a way. But to emulate him by loving and helping our neighbor. By living the things that he is made up of. God CREATED us Joybringer and not only that he sent his only begotten son to DIE for us. That's doing SOMETHING in my book.
but that would mean ignoring your predicament and walking on by,like god does
How does he do that? What you don't expect him to physically stop all he is doing in Heaven to come down to earth to call an ambulance for me?
Gale do you really think god has the right to judge the aid workers that sacrifice so much [sometimes even their lives]to help others,while he,god,sits up in heaven doing nothing?????
You see that's where we disagree. And yes he does have the right to judge or do as he pleases. He IS God. But I don't believe he is sitting up in Heaven doing nothing. God IS omnipotent, and so complex that we could not fathom all there is to know about him, or what his plans are. We are part of his ultimate plan, and even at times when it seems like God is not noticing our pain or does nothing I would guarantee you, that is not the case at all.
Joybringer, are you an athiest? From what you have said about God, it appears that you are. You seem to have a hatred of the idea of God. I just got out of a very uncomfortable debate on a different site with another athiest, and he wasn't even as nice or respectful as you are. He was insulting, mocking, he twisted my words, was arrogant, and even though he made me angry many times I had to answer him in the way Jesus would have answered him. It was tough.
Even so, it didn't get me anywhere and I am not going to continue debating with athiests. However Joybringer, if you ever really want to talk about God in a positive way, if you have questions you can always post them under the Stuff forum here and there are many of us who would be happy to debate with you.
Peace to you,
Gale
Joybringer
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Ok gale,i see your point,that atheist did seem very offensive,but have you ever considered how offensive it is to be told that you are going to burn in hell,not for doing anybody any wrong,but just for thinking for yourself?By the way,yes i am an atheist and i'll see you on the other forum from time to time,peace,JB.
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Isn't it strange that there are so many different gods,but you can never find one when you want one!!!
GALE947
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joybringer:
[B]Ok gale,i see your point,that atheist did seem very offensive,but have you ever considered how offensive it is to be told that you are going to burn in hell,not for doing anybody any wrong,but just for thinking for yourself?
I realize that the thought of burning in hell is offensive and unthinkable to most people, but alas it is the bottom line of the Gospel's msg. But the wrong people do, is probably not wrong according to man's definitions, but according to God's it is. People are sinners, and not only will most non-believers not accept that, they will be offended even by the person who suggests that, but that still doesn't change the fact. Once a person admits they are a sinner according to God's laws, and remember God is HOLY, PURE and PERFECT, without sin and cannot be surrounded by sin. By repenting of sin and embracing Jesus Christ who CAME specifically as OUR savior, to have those sins FORGIVEN, by accepting Jesus, we have received His only means of our getting ETERNAL LIFE. I mean Joybringer, think of it this way, even if you don't believe in God. If you suddenly for just one moment, could concede the possibility that you're wrong. And you who are a sinner would not go to heaven. Why? Because God is so pure and SO Holy that he cannot be surrounded by sin or sinners. He has made it POSSIBLE for us who were sinners to get RID of that sin so we will be pure enough to be in his presence. Does that make any sense?
By the way,yes i am an atheist and i'll see you on the other forum from time to time,peace,JB.
I look forward to it. Thanks..
In Christ,
Gale
Admin
Administrator
Posts: 45
Registered: Sep 1999
posted 01-07-2001 09:21 PM
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This thread does not belong in the Praise Report board. I am moving it to the Stuff board.
Thanks!
Catholic
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Joy,
I'm not sure if there is physical pain in Hell or not. For the most part, I think there is.
Even if there was no pain, the soul of that person would be FAR from happy. They would be separated from God and would haveto suffer for an eternity knowing they brought that fate upon themsleves. That is hardly good news.
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-Liza :)
If we possessed every virtue but lacked humility, those virtues would be without root and would not last. -St. Vincent de Paul
O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to
thee. -Words on the Miraculous Medal revealed to Catherine Laboure
Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence.-St. Augustine
Kings Son
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JB, you've proven that you can be absurd, obnoxious and arrogant, and have revealed yorself as just another "troll". Now the time has come for you to fish or cut bait.
Let's see you validate the intellectual worth of atheism. PROVE to us that God does not exist. I will accept no waffling or opinions or conjectures. I want empirical proof to support your assertion that there is no God, which is what atheism dogmatically dictates.
Before you decide to attempt the usual atheist diversionary tactic, I will state flatly that there is no empirical proof that God DOES exist. However, there is abundant evidence to that effect. There is no equivalent evidence for the non-existence of God because such evidence is by definition unobtainable. As any first year student of logic knows, it is impossible to prove a negative.
So, the challenge is to prove to us by either empirical proof or irrefutable evidence that there is no God. And, make it very good, because I fully intend to shred every flaw in your arguments.
Joybringer
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KINGS SON:Yes of course you're right,i cannot prove the NON EXISTENCE of god,because proving a negative is impossible,all i can state is the reasons for my non belief.But of course,i CAN prove the non existence of a loving caring god and i have lots and lots of supportive evidence,it's everywhere,in your daily newspaper,your TV news or even as you walk the streets of the city/town where you live.If i behaved like your your god,you would condemn me!!!You christians go galloping around on your high horses as if you are so superior and you call ME arrogant!!!The christian god is a bigot and is guilty of every crime you can imagine and he is so cavalier about it he even allowed his crimes to be documented in the bible!!!If your verbal abuse is the price i have to pay for making you think,then so be it.
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Isn't it strange that there are so many different gods,but you can never find one when you want one!!! WELL,THAT IS THE FIRST EPISODE OF THE FLAME WAR!I HAVE MORE STUFF TO ADD AND I WILL DO THAT WHEN I GET TIME[ps,it needs to be tidied up a bit too,so i will have to do a bit of editing]
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WORLD PEACE? WHAT A GOOD IDEA!
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